you said if i had any questions about any specific myths i could ask and i actually do! i was wondering if there was any way to learn more about the rape of Persephone? its one of the few myths that i can't find much about and when i do its from varying perspectives that often never align with each other at all
HAHAHVD you went and found the one myth that I liked researching okok
It's mentioned in passing in one of Chadwick's books about the Mycenean religion. It's either him or Nilsson, maybe both, I can't remember but here are the books,
So the Myceneans believed there were three main gods: The two queens and the king. Chadwick believed that the two queens are Demeter and Persephone and the king was Poseidon. And he believed that cause there are texts with those names and they mention parts of the story so, it kinda checks out.
Let me add that Poseidon and Hades are the same deity for the Myceneans.
In some older versions she leaves willingly, I think Chadwick has written about this again, so the daughter Persephone and the son Poseidon run away from the mother Demeter. And it's supposed to symbolize the coming and going of life.
That is the closest we've gotten to an original version. But it's 3000 years old so.. it's incomplete.
Nilsson also offers an alternative take, though he doesn't site any sources so idk where he's pulling this from, but apparently many facts about the myth sound a lot like the abduction of Helen of Troy. Which actually kinda makes sense, it's the same time period. And Helen was a queen so, maybe that's something but I don't know anything else about that.
Then there's the "modern" version of the myth, or the Archaic version, which you can find in any book with the Homeric Hymns. There's like 20 pages dedicated to a song about the abduction of Persephone. And it's pretty much like everyone knows it today.
If you need anything more specific lemme know, I know it's a lot of information cjcjnx
Wait wait hol on I wanna add this it summarises a lot of the known sources together and is really funny and has really pretty animation I gotta leave now for school presentation akfhsksjhdkajdjsks
š§Egh, again I can't watch this I'm 2 minutes in and everything is weird againn
1) she's mixing the time periods, all the non-con stuff happen after the Archaic period, even after Homer. Those are the modern retellings of the stories not the original versions! And those stories are mainly told around Attica or northern Greece.
2) she also mentions Dionysus as a seperate being from Zeus. The Dio part of Dionysus's name means Zeus, and it's known that Dionysus was a chthonic version or the baby version of Zeus. In some parts of Greece Dionysus and Hades were the same God. So there's no good boy Dionysus and bad man Zeus,.... I'm guessing the Hades game is to blame for that.........
3) Zeus and Hera weren't married. I don't FFFFFF know which christian fucker wrote that!!?? Zeus and Hera weren't married! They were just.. therE. So that whole myth about their marriage?? Never actually read a single tablet or piece of scripture that says anything like that. That's BS. I'll believe that when I read it straight from a piece of marble or papyrus that's more than 2000 years old.
4) Women were treated like garbage AFTER the Archaic period. Again, it's important. Certain Greek tribes took over and brought some shit with them. That doesn't mean women were treated like shit in Greece in general. For 3000 years women were monarchs and queens!! Why do you think Helen leaving Sparta was such a big deal that it sparked 12 years of war???? Because she was pretty?????????? The people who ORIGINATED the religion were all women priests??? And trust me the original versions of the myths were far more abstract and spiritual than Oh Zeus was a Swan and he Flew down--- that's some Athenian BS.
It's got nothing to do with Zeus as he was originally. Zeus was meant to symbolize the force of life, the whimsy and the cruelty but nOt like that. He would just ruin boats and stuff,,, god the Athenians and the Christians really were the winners of history.....
I'm just sad...
I can't watch this, I'm already mad and it's been two minutes, and it's not her fault I'm just tired.....
I'll list some books and end this discourse, cause I'm not about to fix the internet on my own.
If you want to believe what you believe about the Greek religion that's your prerogative.
But the reason why I keep saying 'don't mix the periods together' is because there were different tribes within Greece. And talking about a period is talking about their cultural differences.
These aren't just pretty shapes. They tell thousand-year stories.
BACK WITH MORE QUESTIONS what is "linear b"? I figure it's a language obviously, but what?
The first Greek tribe/civilization to use letters was the Minoan one. Their alphabet was called Linear A and it's not yet deciphered.
The Myceneans that came after the Minoans, had Linear B. Which was deciphered and it's how we know that the Olympians were a much much older religion that most people thought at firstāØ
This is Linear B
(The day we decipher Linear A I'll cry happy tears I stg, it's killing me that we can't read those texts!!)
The Minoans werenāt Greek-speakers and therefore not Greeks. They spoke a different language that we usually call Minoan. We do know a few words - kuro meansĀ ātotalā, for example - and we can infer some things about its phonology through the structure of the script. Linear B is not actually very good for writing Greek, as it assumes open syllables and doesnāt have a way of distinguishing between voicing. This may well mean that those things were true of Minoan, as Linear B was based directly off Linear A. This means that weĀ Ā can read a fair amount of Linear A (see this site, for instanceĀ Ā - we just donāt know the language. The Linear A tablets, like those of Linear B, are administrative documents, counting resources and such.Ā
Yes it's not an alphabet, I've shown the picture, my tongue just slipped cause EngLisH
Correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the parts of Linear A that have been translated haven't been approved by any board or university?? I hope I'm wrong tbh
And though calling Linear B a Greek language might be more due to geography than actual linguistic similarities. Many Linear B words survive today in the modern language such are pa-te(father) or pa-si (nature), etc. So I wouldn't say they're completely different.
But the way it was explained to me was that everything else is speculation and it's extremely difficult to get anything approved due to the lack of evidence?
There has been some well-received work by academics at well-known universities on Linear A. Esther Salgarella at Cambridge comes to mind (here,Ā here, here), but there are others. There are those who claim to haveĀ ācrackedā Linear A, but they have not. Really, the issue isnāt really so black and white. We can infer some things, and if we make assumptions about values based on Linear B (something that only works for some signs), we can read a few words. The reason why we know the word forĀ ātotalā is that itās customary to write it at the end of a tablet with the total of all the sums. (Weāve figured out the numerals.) That being said, our understanding of Linear A still leaves much to be desired, and inferences only get us so far, and thus it is still considered undeciphered.Ā
Linear B is not a language, but a script. The language that script is written with is Greek. Itās a very old form of Greek, but Greek nonetheless. Linear A, however, is not used to write Greek, but a completely different language.Ā
This is the discourse Tumblr should be known for instead, it's much more interesting dndjdjdj
But, YES it's a script not a language. I'm really not used to talking about all this in English. I have to do some mental gymnastics yes it's a Ī³ĻĪ±ĻĪ® not a Ī³Ī»ĻĻĻĪ±.
But it was also used to write a very specific Greek dialect, the Mycenean one, so at least here everyone just talks about the Linear B language. Meaning of course the language that was written in this script djdndjd I'm not assuming that those runes are a language by themselves dw
And I've never heard of Esther Salgarella?? That's so fff cool, I'll look her up
u seem really cool, and patient to answer all these questions. mind if i ask my own? if so my question is, how seperate do you wish people would view roman cutlure and greek? from my perspective historically, religiously, and other ways ive always been taught to view them as the same and more negatively. but thinkign about it, besides a few conflicts, greeks were really cool. mind sharing some thoughts on this? feel free to ignore or berate me in dms.
Ahaaaa I want to cry. No, the Romans were conquerors at the time they took over Greece. Our cultures aren't the same they basically took over our lands and put our best architects and sculpture makers(I forget the word) to work for their own stuff??
We really aren't the same?? In every single possible way I can describe. I have a minor degree in art history and architecture that is particular to Greek and Italian history. These two cultures aren't alike, the Roman empire copied everything that looks similar that's all.
Also they did it in a bad way. For Greeks the temples and statues had at least a little bit of spiritual meaning. For the Romans all the sculptures and grand architecture was to flaunt their superiority and power.
Also most Roman statues aren't as good as Greek ones. And I don't mean in the pretty sort of way, but in their technique.
Roman statues usually need some random shit to support the statue. The Greek ones usually have the weight distributed in a way that makes them stand on their own.
Romans were conquerors and did horrible things, yes. But in between all that, the common people of the ancient world were just trying to live their lives. The Roman common people invented a drill for sculpture, medical tools and other things, many Roman ppl were inventors and pioneers in their own studies. So, sure. Don't look up to their leaders obviously, but you have to admire the people who helped their society every way they could.
Now I have assumed you mean Roman and Greek culture around and after 500 B.C. Because otherwise those two cultures were too far apart to be able to group them together.
And yes I have to agree, Greece after 500 B.C was 100000% not the best place to be at. After the Dark Ages, my ancestors had to rebuild their society from zero. We don't know what exactly happened, it might've been because of the Eruption of Thera. But honestly that happened millennia before the dark ages even started so I don't think so.
Anyway in their efforts to rebuild their society for some reason women and children's right were non-existent. Slavery was a big thing, if you didn't have enough money for taxes someone could just own you. And the philosophers that came with the times are all garbage people, in my humble and gentle opinion. Aristotle being, and pardon my french, Mega Cunt No. 1
Socrates and Plato were o-k. Diogenes was a boss. But pretty much everyone else was garbage. And they did garbage things. (All this applies to the main lands, this happened around Athens and other places. The islands kept the old religion going and lived seperate.) But on the bright side, Greeks gave the western world math, astronomy, physics, etc. Because Greeks really loved to travel, they studied astronomy in Egypt and on their own, they studied Math in Asian countries as it become necessary for trade. Anyway..
I mean sure, I can't stop you from seeing this in a negative light. But i also want to make sure you know that "ancient Greece" had more than 4000 years of history. And if you say it's all shit because of the last 500 years of it, I have to disagree? The Minoan culture was my favorite, women were politicians, had their boobies out, and the Minoan palaces didn't have walls.
Do you understand what that means? For 3000 years there was NO war there. In my opinion that's better than what we've managed today.
Anyway, the "correct" way to look at history isn't to look up or down on people. It's to take a step back, study the good and bad and try to understand their humanity. In order for progress to exist hindsight must be twenty twenty, y'know?
Also whoever told you to look down on those cultures.... I... Don't hear people like that. I've been bullied severely for being Greek all my life. I'm trying to share what I know because I don't like people yelling in my face or throwing rocks at me like we're in the middle fucking ages.... History is a teacher, not grounds for thinking some people are less than others.
Today I :
I am exausted, and yet I don't feel that productive. I've been really stressed and anxious these past few days and it's not helping. But looking at the bright side tonight I am going out with my brother's girlfriend. We have been planning to catch up for a while, but we hadn't found the right day yet, and finally we managed to get some organization into our lives.
šµ: One For The Road - Arctic Monkeys
this week went by suuuper fast. here's 3rd week's layout ft. my messy biology testpapers. i am currently in a (sort of) crisis where idk whether should i :
a) take architecture, open my own firm after i graduate. chase my dreams. or
b) take dentistry because i have the potential & it's not that male-dominated.
i did my own research and architecture itself is really challenging. but with the will & probably some talent (?) chances of succeeding is... high? aanyways!! i hope the next week is good to us! <33